3500 kg oder mehr? Kann jemand mit Diese Regeln (auf Englisch?) helfen?

  • There are different things:


    Weight:


    3,5t is the maximum for cars and light transporters. This is what one can normally drive with a common driving license. The trailer hitch is a "Kugelkopfkupplung" -> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhängerkupplung. (All other german words in my post are mentioned in this article, too.)


    Above you need another trailer hitch: Maulkupplung and either a truck or tracktor. Either with compressed air-brake or rather slow (generalized, there are exceptions). I personally plan to go for a max 18t Wechselbrücke. That means that I depend on service for transport.


    Only with theoretical exceptions (aka: not seen up to now in real life) the following holds: Only 3,5 trailers are low enough for a loft.


    Load:


    To the best of my knowledge, you either transport with TÜV or with a red license plate. The later is generally not for individuals and you either need a service or have to know people who have one.


    Either the TH gets TÜV or the TH is load and only the trailer needs TÜV. Load means, that it can be removed from the trailer without tools. E.g. by kind of container locks. Some say it is almost impossible to get TÜV für a TH, other say that they build TH on order with TÜV. I don't know the details. There are further advances and disadvances for TÜV and load but I would consider them negligible. I plan to go for load via Wechselbrücke on a Wechselfahrgestell. You might search for these in mobile.de -> LKW -> Anhänger and then select each of them as type.
    An alternative to locks is a low-loading truck to transport your TH as load. Some do it even for trailer without TÜV (e.g. "Bauwagen"). Have the total height in mind!


    Size:


    There are two realities: The first is max width is 2,55m and max length is the total length of drawing vehicle and trailer. Typically max trailer is length 10m with the exception of 12m for Sattelkupplung. Max height is 4m.


    The next reality is oversized transport. This is daily business, e.g. for yacht owners carrying their boat with a private car through Europe several times a year. Up to 3m, the minimal cost is from something around 40€ per trip or < 300€ per year. Most freight forwarders (e.g. necessary for > 3,5t anyway) will offer this service. More than 3m width and 4m height might be more expensive. This information is only based on my googeling. I personally plan to some cm width more than 2,55m. BTW: some meters additional length are no issue. You just need a warning flag in case.


    Most THoW in Germany are < 3,5t. I believe this to have a psychological reason (feeling free when you can transport without service). Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong about it. I believe that most of our life style is not rational but based on feelings. As it is for me.

  • [...]
    When you speak of Welchselbruecke/Fahrgestell, do you mean you'll build a house without it's own Anhänger and just have it carried?

    Hi,


    have a look at this:


    http://reset-house.de/#funktioniert


    This is the website of one of our board members here (Philipp) explaining the principle of the Wechselbrücke. Keep in mind that you can choose to have a truck or trailer as hauling device under these structures. Most of the big DHL trucks around here are of these types; on the truck itself as well as the attached trailer.

  • That doesnt apply in Germany though. Our inspectors are not stopped by wheels as soon as you want to live in it permanently.

  • The moment you plan to live permanently in your building (and building here includes every structure that resembles anything like habitable space and/or a toilet and/or a stove - regardless of wheels, stilts or whatever. The word gravity is actually mentioned in the text of the law, so you get an idea of how general this is) you have to attach this building to the grid (freshwater, waste and road access) and your building has to comply to certain structural aspects before you can even think of living somewhere. These aspects differ by which federal state you're in, but are more or less not compatible with Tiny houses.
    The only known ways of doing all this legally are camping parks (not camping sites and yes, of course there is a difference in Germany) or exceptions in certain communities that are nice and adventurous. Welcome to Germany.

  • Is finding someone to move a heavy house difficult or expensive here? I can't seem to find any info - wagendorf isn't useable at the moment.
    Trying to decide whether to stay under 3500 kg or not.
    And who actually weighs the trailer/load when it's moved? Do you have to weigh it first, officially?

    I cannot imagine it being very expensive. It depends on the distance obviously, but these weight loads are everyday's work for any commercial business.
    If you want to stay under the 3500kgs it depends on whether you want your house registered as caravan type or as load. In the first case everthing VINS wrote applies. When building as 'load' no one actually checks the weight officially. But I guess you'll be shot on site when stopped by the police on the road. Meddling with these things are not advisably in my opinion. Even if only for road safety reasons.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Andy ()

  • Ah so. So they can dig into water, electric, and all that? That would be a disaster.
    Somehow I don't believe those inspectors are actually digging into Bauwagen, usw. Hard to imagine. I'm not going to worry about it, anyway.

    Bauwagen and the site they stand on are a thing of some bizarreness in German regulations. There are plenty that are plainly illegal and could be ordered to be cleared any given day. On the other side of the spectrum there are sites which are tolerated and provided with a fresh water service. It even has occured that some sites were needed for something else and the city council actually looked for a substitute space. Alas, this must indeed be a rare beast.

  • There's one in Muenster which costs the users nothing, actually! No electric, but sewage. :)



    I actually moved away from such an illegal site in colorado many years ago, just before the city closed it down. They ignored it until someone complained, then they "had to" act. The owner was actually a german. Very expensive town, it was a nice little oasis for us wagen wohners. ;) It cost the poor guy 50,000 in legal expenses too, sadly.

    Wow, that is horrible! Here oftentimes it is as you describe above: before someone complains, noone cares. but if they do, the city officiuals have "Zugzwang". I had to learn the hard ways as we run a creative arts studio in the city and we also held concerts there. the city itself kept renting our space for meetings.
    one day someone complained about the noise and inquired if we had a betriebserlaubnis for events.
    then the baumamt ppl came to inspect: no emergency exit. that killed the concert venue.


    about our TH i called the city (i learned my lesson) and asked. they basically said: as long as it is on wheels (mobile) i can do whatever i want, especially since i onw the property. but i may NOT list it as a permanent residence. with postal address and such.
    which i dont anyways. i have another address.


    it is hard, though. i dont think many ppl dare to to this.


    then the office later on said they arent even in charge to making decisions, it was jurisdiction of the environmental office.
    so i called them and they were completely overwhelmed with the foreign concept of a tiny house and said, they's get back to me.


    which they never did.


    in our area are a few "Hippie-ish" communes.
    they have Bauwagen, Little houses, treehouses, Campervans, etc. and the city knows of them and doesnt bother them. one guy has been out there for 14 years.

  • I totally agree with Jules. Law and law-enforcement can be quite different.


    There is something called "Innenbereich" which is area designated as living area. Then there is the "Aussenbereich" which is nature, agricultural areas, ... I would summarize it as following:
    1) one can life officially in the Innenbreich with a "Baugenehmigung"
    2) one can life non-officially in the Innenbereich. E.g. in a garden of a house or in the 200m vicinity of a farm.
    3) one can life non-officially in the Aussenbereich, e.g. at a lake or forest.


    I plan to go for 2). Many consider 3) as no-go (as I do) but some do it, silently accepted by the local administration.


    Another thing: To my understanding you get not fined for an "illegal" building when administration decides to act against it but have the following options:
    - legalize it
    - remove it (easy for a mobile TH :)).


    I would not expect such a 50K fine in Germany as long as there are not such stuff as uncleared sewage and so on.


    BTW. Oversized is to my understanding only possible for load.


    Some posts before there was the talk about "inspector". I have the impression different posters had different inspectors in mind. TÜV does not inspect your load, in case only if it is fixed properly ("Ladungssicherung").


    An no, I don't consider Germany as a pain in the ass!! :(

  • It is, trust me. You're just used to having a sore bottom. ;)

    You don't get it?! Insulting ones home country is offensive (at least for me). Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

  • You don't get it?! Insulting ones home country is offensive (at least for me). Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

    Well I do and I think he is quite right. Don't really understand how critizising the present situation of regulations can affect your sense of patriotism but I'm pretty sure he didn't mean it as a general judgement of the quality of this so very fine nation and its inhabitants.

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